24 June 2009

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President Sarkozy dares to talk against Hijab or Burka:

President Sarkozy dares to talk against Hijab or Burka:
In short know what Sarkozy said in the French parliament, that the full body religious gown is a sign of subservience for a woman that undermines their dignity.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has opposed the wearing of the Muslim burqa in public.

Today even president obama is afraid to talk against religion Islam or any other religion.

Reality Views by sm :

If we will see the history of religions we will see that every religion has went through changes.
Let’s start with Hindu Dharma or Religion
Hindu religion got sati system, no education for females, dowary system, and child marriage
No divorce for females etc.
Still today in Hindu religion you will find that many of above customs are present .When in India educated reformers started to give education to the females first of all majority females opposed that change. Females didn’t permit other females to study.
When law against sati was made Females opposed that.
When dowry law is made you can see females oppose that also.
So the point is that if Females support the partucular law then that law is good and so it should remain the law is not correct approach.
If majority females say ban jeans will you support it?
If majority females say that no education for females will you support it.
It’s the duty of country to see that females also enjoy the equality status in the society.Females also get choice,and females are not treated as baby giving cows.

Let’s understand what is Hijab or Burka?
The headscarf worn by Muslim women, sometimes including a veil that covers the face except for the eyes.
It said that if female do not put hijab or burka after her death she will not get place in the heaven.Every good female will put and use Hijab.
Hijab is used so females can be protected from the bad males as no one can say which man is good or bad.

I just remembered something once a child got a game as a gift from his father and he started to play with the game, suddenly he saw his friends are coming to his home and he immediately covered his game, as he thought game is his property, his friends may take away his property that is his game.

Hijab is bad or good is a different question

The question is of choice. Be honest with yourself. Do you see any choice for Muslim females?
If you are a rich Muslim female you will not be forced to put on a hijab.
Normally the child inherent the habits of parents regarding food and clothes and all other activities. If you are born in a non veg eating family, you will become non-vegetarian.

Did you ever think what will happen if any Muslim female decides that she will not use hijab?
Does Muslim world and society will accept her?
So how can this choice be introduced in the Muslim world so females will get a right to choose, use hijab or no hijab and still maintain there dignity in the society.

Indirectly using hijab becomes compulsion on Muslim females.
Even Hindu people are trying to put dress code on females; Hindu females are educated so they can oppose it strongly. What happened in Mangalore We have all seen it.
In Utter Pradesh they tried to ban Jeans, but the attempt failed.

Yes for Hijab or No for Hijab should be the right of females. But today females do not enjoy this right of freedom to choose.

As France is a democracy ,President Sarkozy will introduce law in the parliament and after that voting will be done and the law will be passed.Before that there will be lot of debates and a parliamentary committee.

If god wanted humans should use clothes then why not child is born with clothes?

If you believe that God is there then answer is that he also wanted to give a choice.
This is reason he has given us power of thinking.

Updated on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 –

The French senate has overwhelmingly passed a new law banning face veils in public places.
They voted 246 to 1 in favor of the bill, already passed in the lower chamber.
The proposer of the law - Senator Francios-Noel Buffet - says it is the right move.
The penalty for women who break the new law is a fine of 150 euros while husbands who are found guilty of forcing their wives to wear the veil face a 30-thousand euro fine and a one-year jail term.


Smitha June 24, 2009  

You know, I think banning hijab is just as bad as forcing it on women. There are women who willingly decide to wear the hijab - and for what it's worth - I think women should have the option to choose. Be it to wear hijab or not , to wear jeans or not.. Banning it is, as bad as what the Talibans are doing - taking the choice away from women - whatever that choice might be.

ankit,  June 24, 2009  

yes i also support choice.

AnjuGandhi June 24, 2009  

Thanx for visiting my post.regarding the question you asked in my post honestly I have no answer to your question. such mythological serials claim that they are installing family and moral values in the todays generation ( at least the serial in question is ) but then I dont know how much the younger generation is learning from it.
just one small incidnece in favour of your question (again no offence meant to any GOD or any one) -- On krishna janamashtami some boys were found eve teasing , when scolded for that. do you know what answer they gave? " Bhagwan Krishna bhi to gopyio ko chedte they ( even Lord Krishna used to tease girls so we are following him.
regarding your this post today only I read that French Government is again thinking whether to have the ban or not
banning a particular attire is I suppose treading on someone's privacy. ( we are also having the No Jeans allowed in UP COlleges)

sm,  June 24, 2009  

smitha i agree with you.

Unknown June 24, 2009  

France has the highest number of Muslim in entire of Europe, rather the Western World! They form a major chunk of it!

Now the moot point is: Banning it will only fan the communal sentiments...and if we don't ban it, there will be a lot more women, who might have to put it, not because of choice, or force, but because of Dignity and Society, and their perception.

So, taking all things in account, Sarkozy has done a right thing by banning. But he should revoke the Ban silently, in a few years. After that, it will be left to women...what they want to do....

I am not for Banning Jeans, but when you see the areas we talking about...Kanpur, and Gorakhpur, you would have to understand the fact that, though wearing Jeans is not a crime....but in those areas, we have a huge pool of men, and women alike...to who, it doesn't suit their morality, culture, because Jeans is suggestive.

sm,  June 24, 2009  

anjugandhi,yes i agree with you but this hijab is for life long.

sm,  June 24, 2009  

rajiv r yes you are right.should be banned for few years as france is democracy its possible.

BK Chowla, June 24, 2009  

Particularly in France,they should not take a risk because of a large Muslim population.However,it should be left to the women and their families to choose.Any country has larger issues to attend to than these silly subjects.

NG June 24, 2009  

i am so impressed with Sarkozy ... it needs a lot of courage to not be diplomatic and instead try to do what u believe in...
his take on the Hijab as not being a religious custom...but moreover a supression act is amazing...
i hope the country understand this and does not lead to unwanted communal conflicts...

infact this is something that should be made optional and the power of whether to wear or not...should only lie with the woman herself

great post on this issue...

Vipul Grover June 24, 2009  

I firmly believe that any kind of reforms should be endogenetic(from inside) and not exogenetic(forced from outside). Burqa or no burqa shud be decided by Muslim world. I personally favour no burqa asi blive it has lost its significance in presnt world. Are muslim men that pervert that they'll just pounce over any women without burqa. Answer is NO. so import of burqa as protection against sch things is ovr.
However i Being a non-muslim have no right to ban, i cn just criticise and that too in a polite manner(i know i got bit impolite above).
Anyways Sarkozy has no right to ban a burqa for muslim women or a turban(patka) for Sikh children. He is President of a Repblic which gave the world(and India) the ideals of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. He should uphold these ideals!

sm,  June 25, 2009  

Neha i agree with you.One should say and do what one belives in.I also support there should be choice and how this choice be introduced in the muslim world is the real question.

sm,  June 25, 2009  

Vipul this next post is for you and other readers who do not know the french policy towards religion.Vipul will you support hindu sati system if again started in Rajasthan,
vipul do you support child marriage,vipul will you support kiling of female child in the womb which is also a indian custom.Will you support dowary this is also indian custom.as all this are customs do you think all laws should be abolished regarding these customs.

Anonymous,  June 25, 2009  

i support sarkozy

sm,  June 25, 2009  

Bk thanks

Vipul Grover June 25, 2009  

sm i think u didnt undrstnd wat i said..
reforms shud be endogenetic.. tht means reformers should b from within the community and not outside to make the reforms acceptable.

Who abolished Sati???
Officially it was William Bentick, the Governer General of India in 1829..
Does that mean this reform was exogenetic,i.e. enforced from outside?
NO. British were never interested in alienating Indians by disturbing their social structure. Their interest was only economic.
It was Raja Ram Mohan Roy who forced the British Raj to bring these reforms by his continued efforts since 1812.
Same goes for all other reforms u jus mentioned.
Britishers only gave the legal seal to issues which were brought forward by Indian Reformers.

So b4 knowing the french policy, lets know what the history of our country is.

sm,  June 25, 2009  

vipul when community is not ready to change what is the option.
Why they felt a need to make a law,if society can change automatically why then there is a need for law.Currently they have even made a law so the kids will take care of there parents.
Raja Rammohan roy acted but i feel important is seal.Who has given the seal.who made it the law.
i always say we should first see what happend after our independance that is more important.
Can you suggest any ways,methods what should be done so choice is given to muslim females regarding use of hijab.When it is seen that society is not ready to change then times comes and government has to make a law regarding that thing.
i firmly belive there is no choice for the muslim females regarding Hijab.
thanks for your comment vipul i hope in future also we will have such a healthy conversation which will help us improve our own knowledge.

Vipul Grover June 25, 2009  

hey buddy thnx 2 u got a topic 2 blog about. read my stand on all this issue at http://vipulgrover.blogspot.com/2009/06/sarkozy-vs-burqa.html
hav developed it mostly out of these two comments only.

Now carrying fwd.. (though i wish 2 shift it on my post now;)
see u r still mixing up french issue with india. these are two different things.. thts why i chose British India as it is bit analogous to this particular incident.
I am not against reforms but I am only talking of the right way to implement them. Again my replies r in context to France.
Seal is very important, i agree bt only wn intial preparations have been made.
I'v written about the way Sarkozy shud hav initiatd reforms in my post.

Dhiman June 25, 2009  

OMG what a discussion on something which certainly doesnot pertain to anything in our country.
SM having read your very informative post French Law I agree with Vipul that whether Hijab is "Evil" or not should be decided by Muslim women(I know a few women who have taken up Hijab on their own without any pressure) and as the French Govt. does not recognize any religions it should not come out with a law banning a "religious right" as muslims consider it as....
I feel what it should do is stop anyone who tries to enforce "Hijab" forcefully
infact many "religious" leaders in Iran have welcomed Sarkozy's view on Hijab and I also admire him for his views but as a Head of a state which does not recognize any religion should not interfere with religion as well unless its something coming from inside the religion itself....

Anonymous,  June 25, 2009  

Mr Sarkozy please dont interfear into our religion unless you dont know about it. Each and every thing is brought by our Beloved prophet and what our he did is very correct for whole mankind. By Hijaab girls will be more safe, so better follow Islam to be safe in both the worlds.

Indian Home Maker June 25, 2009  

I agree with Smitha Sm. I also agree with you that Muslim women do not really have much choice in this, but I feel if burka is banned and if some Muslim women still want to wear it then nothing is achieved.

I have read on some sites how some muslim women feel the burka protects their modesty. So banning it might make them wish to rebel and wear it like a symbol of their defiance! Also there is the risk of communal tensions.
I think creating awareness is the first, most important step.

sm,  June 25, 2009  

Vipul sure i will visit your site and read the post.

sm,  June 25, 2009  

Dhiman i agree with you that female should have choice.This is what i said in the post also.
2nd question is that do you see any choice for muslim female to choose Hijab.
There is no Choice for Muslim females.
The way they are taught from childhood is that they support the Hijab.
To introduce choice in the muslim world what is the solution.

sm,  June 25, 2009  

Anonymous i am sorry i can not answer you.

sm,  June 25, 2009  

IHM thanks yes that what i also say how it will be started.President Sarkozy has started what he felt correct.Situation is that he is correct as well as wrong.I feel that something is better than nothing.

sm,  June 25, 2009  

i have visited blog of vipul and this is my comment which i have posted there.
Vipul nice picutre.
Why i have written on this topic you have correctly said what is today happening in France,will happen in India tomorrow or day after tommorw but i am sure it will happen.

Vipul my question is do you belive that we are all equal people.Our blood is red.God is one so why dont we have right to speak for betterment of muslim brothers and sisters.
God really exist or not is different question.
“The time when you need to do something is when no one else is willing to do it, when people are saying it can't be done.”
This is what Sarkozy is doing.

Vipul Grover June 25, 2009  

To maintain the rhythm, um also repeating my reply here!

Sorry mate neither u nor I know what and why Sarkozy is doing this. U c a messiah in him, I c an irresponsible President. V both hav our right of interpretation.
This said, I agree we have the right to speak for our muslim brothers nd sisters, i supported Sarkozy's persnl view nd said v cn critise wrong customs.
Bt v hav 2 b careful about their feelings. Let thm cum fwd thmslvs, support thm if they r stopped by the extremists within their rank bt let thm speak up 4 thmslvs.
DO NOT PATRONISE THEM. Its equivalent to looking down at thm irrespective of the fact tht u r actually thinking about the bettermnt.
They r best judges of wats gud nd bad 4 thm. show thm d way if u may bt dont enforce anything!

Vipul Grover June 26, 2009  

so lets first set our own house right, try 2 remove the ills which r creeping in our religion.
Only thn set out to preach others.

sm,  June 26, 2009  

Vipul i agree with you.
If sarkozy would not have dared the society would not have started to debate on this.
society means global society,this may give encouragement to muslim females that world is with them if they want they can say no to hijab
You know what the treatment is given to Taslima Nasreen a writer.
Thanks for your all comments.

alisha,  June 28, 2009  

support sarkozy

zahrah December 10, 2009  

in Indonesia, the majority Muslims we never intervene in other religions. In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Our Quran Said:
109:2 I serve not what you serve,
109:3 Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve,
109:4 Nor shall I serve that which ye serve,
109:5 Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve.
109:6 For you is your recompense and for me my recompense.

sm,  December 10, 2009  

please open the history and read the history of Islam
Every religion is faulty and no religion is perfect , when human is not perfect how can he create a perfect religion.
If i get the time i will write about Indonesia also.

Dr. George Jose February 21, 2010  

I am a regular reader of your blog. Good to see something for the intelligent masses. I am having a little bit of trouble with your rss feeds, I am using my trusty firefox.

Thanks again. Have a wonderful day!
Dr. George Jose.

sm,  February 21, 2010  

Dr. George Jose,
thanks.i checked the blog with firefox browser but did not find the problem.If still you are facing the problem please let me know exactly what is problem, you can even mail me.
mit302006 @yahoo.com
thanks for informing me

ms,  July 17, 2010  

So.. lets say a person wants to eat non-vegetarian food... Chicken, Mutton, Beef. But his parents, relatives are ultra-pure Brahmans ..they don't even eat onions, leave alone eggs.

So according to the logic you apply, if he eats non-veg, no one in his family will accept him. Hence, the person's choice becomes very restricted. "indirectly," there is no choice.

How do you think this lack of choice problem should be addressed?

sm,  July 17, 2010  

I can only suggest that boy and family should talk about it ,discuss about it and family
Will find the ways like not eating non vegetarian food on particular days or only eating Non Vegetarian food outside home.
This is only solution.
We can see many Brahmin boys and girls eating non vegetarian food outside home
Jain boys and girls eating all kind of food outside home which contains garlic and onion.
The problem with our Indian society is that we do not try to find the logic why in olden time this rule and law was made?
When we get this answer we have to ask today am I facing this problem if not then there is no need to follow that old custom
Another point is if parents do not agree, one should study hard , get the job and leave the home of parents for the love of food.
Every individual has different thinking but he or she can leave the home and become next door living son or daughter. This way he or she can enjoy food as well as can give support to the parents.

ms,  July 17, 2010  

sm, thanks for ur reply..

Why can't the same thing apply for hijab and burkha? Talk about it with family, maybe they'll understand.

If they "do not agree, one should study hard, get the job and leave the home of parents for the love of" clothing.

When there are no laws where people are told what to eat and what not to eat, why should there be laws on what to wear and what no to wear?

sm,  July 18, 2010  

My question is why in India Sati system was banned?
Why child marriage is banned?
Why we can not watch fashion TV?
Why we can not have sex education?

These questions are related with our society not few families or individuals.
We can not see Adult TV in India one reason is that majority Indians have only one TV and small homes.

As per Hindu religion do you know females were not allowed to study or hear Mantra?
Now why they are allowed.
Do you know females opposed the education of females in olden times?
Please read about Phule and his wife and their sacrifice for female education.

When society is not ready to change, it is the duty of Government to forcefully change the society by making laws.
Example is dowry law and sati system and many more.

Food and clothing is an individual choice. It is not related with society.
Hijab is problem of the society as whole.

Hope you understand the problem.
We can not compare the choice of individual with the choice of society.
Food is individual taste.
Do you think each Muslim female is educated and have well paying jobs?
Please read the Sachar committee report and you will know the status of Muslims in India.
When Muslim males do not have education we can only imagine what is the condition of Muslim females.

Think why Majority females use Sari and Punjabi dress in India.
Who teaches them to use Sari and Punjabi dress?

ms,  July 22, 2010  

"Do you think each Muslim female is educated and have well paying jobs?"

If they were educated and had jobs and decided to do hijab, would you still have a problem?

sm,  July 22, 2010  

It all the muslim religious declares that Hijab is not religious symbol, it is choice of freedom and religious leaders ban the use of Hijab for girls up to age 21 , then i will support it.
As a religious symbol I will always oppose it.
what ever may be the condition of female.

Religion must change with the times.
Do you think Human rights are important or religion ?

ms,  August 07, 2010  


Please read this...and tell me if you still think "leaders ban the use of Hijab for girls up to age 21"

I understand that it isn't fair to give people long articles to read in an online discussion, but I think you'll find a different perspective here..


sm,  August 09, 2010  

thanks for link.
I read it once, and will read again.
First of all here we are talking about society,
not single female.
2nd America is a nation where girl child can change life style whenever she is wants.
it is not possible in muslim nation or even in India.
You can even see in past how Sania Mirza was targeted, a national icon of India in India by religious people.
Even in USA they are planning to burn , you must be knowing about this.

ms,  August 11, 2010  

"Even in USA they are planning to burn , you must be knowing about this."

Planning to burn what?

sm,  August 12, 2010  

as you gave me the link about usa female and girl child and Hijab.
Regarding this same is happening in same USA.

In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

ms,  August 16, 2010  

Well, but that's just a very small minority of people, the kind which are present everywhere. It has little to do with Hijab.

Also, on Islam, here's what the President says,
"I also know that Islam has always been a part of America's story. The first nation to recognize my country was Morocco. In signing the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796, our second president, John Adams, wrote - The United States has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Muslims."

And on Hijab, the President says

"That's why the United States government has gone to court to protect the right of women and girls to wear the hijab, and to punish those who would deny it."

So, the United States government supports the right of women to wear hijab.

sm,  August 16, 2010  

For me there is no difference between Any Indian politician and President Obama.
Why Islam is becoming danger, in that only answer lies.
not ready to change as per times and coward politicians for vote accept them and their age old traditions.

ms,  August 16, 2010  

thanks for continuing this conversation.. You can tell me when u get bored, and I'll stop..

How do you say that 'Islam is becoming danger'.. It's statements like these that create more Islamophobia and fear among others regarding Muslims, creates suspicions etc.

What do you mean by not ready to change as per times? Aren't the Khaps changing with times? Hindutva terror is also being investigated now.. so clearly, "Islam" isn't the only "danger"..

Anyway, you said before that parents shouldn't have a control over what their daughter's wear. Are you saying that a girl's wardrobe should be out of bounds for her parents?

sm,  August 16, 2010  

Regarding dressing parents have full right to decide what girls can wear.
But religious leaders can not decide girls dress.

About Hindu dharma please get more knowledge and you can see how much Hindu dharma is changing.
In olden times hindu females do not enjoy right to divorce, no education, no matra and puja and today then can do it everything they enjoy full and equal rights and Educated Hindus are trying to add and give them more and more equality rights .

Please tell me which changes Islam has accepted
which ancient custom Islam has changed ?

in 21st centuray Human rights are more important than religion.

If you study different Fatwas of Muslims you will understand , Islam has not changed.

sm,  August 20, 2010  

Aug 19, 2010 –
Sydney: An Australian judge refused a Muslim woman the right to wear a full-face veil in court during her testimony as a witness in a fraud trial
Perth's District Court Judge Shauna Deane said that in the interest of a fair trial the witness should not be allowed to wear a niqab or burqa.
The judge said that jury should have the opportunity to assess her facial expressions to help weigh her credibility as a witness.
It has also gained national attention since it is understood to be the first time a witness has asked to be able to wear a niqab, with only a space for the eyes, in an Australian court.

SM September 15, 2010  

The French senate has overwhelmingly passed a new law banning face veils in public places.
They voted 246 to 1 in favor of the bill, already passed in the lower chamber.
The proposer of the law - Senator Francios-Noel Buffet - says it is the right move.
The penalty for women who break the new law is a fine of 150 euros while husbands who are found guilty of forcing their wives to wear the veil face a 30-thousand euro fine and a one-year jail term.

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